RECORD OF POINTS RAISED AT THE DISTRICT COMBINATION FORUMS
Season 2009/10
GENERAL
Introduction from the Chairman
The Chairman is keen to improve the dialogue between the County and its clubs. The Forums are an opportunity to bring key players in the County structure to the Districts Combinations and their clubs to learn of the issues at the coalface. It should be an open communications highway, with the County giving advice and guidance on key issues whilst listening to the issues with the clubs; taking specific points away for further consideration and providing feedback. The process is about the sustainability of the clubs from every aspect. There are challenges in all aspects of the game including a shortage of volunteers, retention of players, provision of qualified coaches and referees and discipline both on and off the field. Through sharing ideas in gatherings such as this we can strive towards defining best practice in whatever area and apply it. The aim is to ensure that all associated with either playing or the delivery of the game enjoy what they are doing whatever their role.
Incorporation and other Financial Matters
The GRFU is publicly backing the RFU campaign to highlight to all clubs the significant benefits of incorporation to protect the financial liability of club committees. The Treasurer, Jeff Tyler, has written a context paper which has been sent to all clubs and is available on the GRFU website. To start each Forum, Jeff will make a presentation to put some flesh on the bones on incorporation and answer questions anyone may have. In addition, he covers the benefits of registering as a CASC (Community Amateur Sports Clubs) and highlights some issues concerning Corporation Tax and Club Accounts.
It would be inappropriate to report detailed discussion on this topic here as each club has unique circumstances. For advice on this very important subject please contact Jeff Tyler direct, his details are in the GRFU Directory of the website.
CHELTENHAM – Cheltenham Civil Service RFC -
Vicarious Liability: Following on from the incorporation presentation, Mike Angell (Old Patesians) asked a question concerning vicarious liability stemming from a recent case in Redruth. This is a complex area but in a nutshell the Redruth club were held liable for the actions of one of their professional players on the field of play. There is clear direction from the RFU on this subject and Mike was invited to submit written questions for answer. I stress this only applies if clubs pay players.
CASC: A CASC club must have open membership ie it is open for any member of the community to join.
Man-off Regulations: Peter Shortell (Cheltenham Civil Service) asked if the requirement to adhere to the new man-off regulations could be waived for the de-regulated leagues and the merit tables. The need for additional front row substitutes would effectively reduce the numbers of people playing regular rugby on a Saturday; this ran contrary to the spirit of the merit Tables which was maximum participation. Moreover, there was a need for clear direction as there were ramifications for both players and referees. The worst case scenario was confusion and inconsistencies in the interpretation which would lead to much frustration amongst the clubs. The Chairman stated that he would ask the competitions committee to look at the application of this regulation and make recommendations over its application to the Management Board. The results will be communicated to clubs and the Referee Societies for implementation.
Late cancellations: Geographically remote in the North, Stow RFC is becoming increasingly frustrated by the number of late notice cancellations. This resulted in financial loss over the bar, considerable quantities of food being wasted and referees making nugatory journeys. Was it possible to introduce a regime whereby culprit clubs could be billed for the wasted food? Whilst expressing sympathy for their predicament, the Chairman agreed to raise the issue at the Management Board and probably remind clubs of their responsibility to fulfil fixtures even if they had less than 15 players. Merit table games were all about participation, rather than win at all costs. He further opined that he abhorred late notice cancellations without compelling reasons – lack of commitment to the game at all levels was becoming an issue.
FOREST OF DEAN – Cinderford RFC -
Further Tax Issues: Following Jeff Tyler’s presentation, Keith Plain advised that HMRC had started a campaign to target sports clubs; PAYE and VAT were the main areas of interest. Clubs needed to be scrupulous in their adherence to the complex rules and regulations; failure to do so may result in some very hefty fines.
2nd XVs in the National Leagues: D Trigg (Drybrook) asked for CB views on allowing 2nd XVs to play in the National Leagues given the parlous state of the SW Merit Table and the likelihood that it would disband.
The Chairman explained that this has become a thorny issue. Somerset and Dorset and Wiltshire are small counties and both allow 2nd XVs into the County element of the National Leagues. Two seasons ago, St Mary’s OB 2nd XV joined the leagues in Somerset. The GRFU were unaware of the application, this was further compounded by failure in communication and process by the Somerset RFU. Consequently, the GRFU were presented with a ‘fait accompli’. As the fixture list had already been published the GRFU agreed to a trial period and this continues. Since then the GRFU has received a similar request from Old Patesians to include their 2nd XV in the National Leagues. A review is in progress to look at the status of 2nd XV teams and how best to deliver meaningful competitive rugby for them. It will also consider the effectiveness of Merit tables, their weaknesses and the issue of very late cry offs.
Keith Plain explained that the RFU has directed that no 2nd XV playing in the leagues can be promoted higher than Level 8. Straight away it is evident that a log jam will occur within the structure barring other club 1st XVs from progressing up the league structure. He believes the answer lies in parallel leagues for 2nd XVs. The RFU plan to introduce them for Level 3 to Level 5 and there is no reason why this could not be replicated at the lower levels. Travel costs are often cited as a show stopper; however, judicious manipulation of the fixtures could see the 1st and 2nd XVs playing either home or away on the same day reducing overall costs by sharing transport. There are models running in Cornwall and North Midlands which we are watching with interest. He was sad to note that the SW Merit Table has been won by a team only playing home games which is well outside the spirit of rugby.
It was suggested from the floor that consideration be given to introducing a Premier Merit Table to cater for the stronger clubs. This was a passionate and lively debate; all the points raised were duly noted and would be considered in the review. Feedback and the outcomes of the review together with recommendations will be communicated to clubs when they are available.
Merit Tables: Cinderford are becoming increasing concerned over the retention of players as no-one will travel to play them in the merit tables. This was having an effect on the commitment of the players, many of whom give up paid work to play only to find the game is cancelled at the last moment. Food is going to waste and the loss of games will effect bar profits. This cannot continue and Cinderford are looking towards Wales to find some meaningful games.
A wide ranging open discussion ensued, focussing upon the commitment of players to the game; it was readily evident that many more players are required to sustain a single team throughout the season. Whereas in times past players committed to playing 4 weeks in 4, now many clubs are lucky if players commit to more that 2 weeks in 4. Society has changed but it is putting pressures on the game which are difficult to counter. The end result will be a degradation of the standard of rugby through lack of continuity of selection and probably in training.
Ray Kingscott felt that we should consider the introduction of voluntary codes of conduct. Clubs should honour all fixtures, and if unable give sufficient notice so alternative opponents may be sought. Cry offs at 1350 hours on a Saturday are patently unacceptable. Games with a reduced number of players are preferable to no game at all.
In was pointed out that there are far too many rugby players at Kingsholm on a Saturday rather then donning the jersey of their local club and participating in the game. The County were asked to re-examine the viability of merit tables. With so much manipulation of the rules and an unwillingness of clubs to travel to away fixtures there maybe more rugby played by allowing the clubs to again become free agents to arrange friendly fixtures which they know will be fulfilled!
GLOUCESTER – Chosen Hill RFC – 3 Dec 09
STROUD – Stroud RFC – 13 Jan 10
BRISTOL – Portway RDC – 11 Feb 10
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